How I Learned To Live With DSPS

In: Lifestyle| Psychology By: Brian Armstrong

13 Jun 2009

I don’t do posts about my personal life that often, but I thought this one might help some people.

DSPS is a sleeping disorder (Delayed Sleep Phase Syndrome) and while I only found out it had a name years later, I started experiencing it around the time I entered high school (13 years old).

Here is a simple description of it:

The major feature of these disorders is a misalignment between the patient’s sleep pattern and the sleep pattern that is desired or regarded as the societal norm…. In most circadian rhythm sleep disorders, the underlying problem is that the patient cannot sleep when sleep is desired, needed or expected.

The symptoms are:

  • Regardless of how sleep deprived you are, you are unable to fall asleep until very late
  • Once you do fall asleep you can sleep for a normal amount of time, this differentiates it from other sleep disorders like insomnia
  • There is a relatively severe to absolute inability to advance the sleep phase to earlier hours

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I first started noticing this problem around the time I entered high school. I’d have to wake up fairly early (7am?) for school every day and of course it was difficult. This in itself was not remarkable. What was remarkable was that I would be unable to fall asleep before 2 or 3am any night, even after five days of little sleep.

So you can imagine Monday goes by on 4 hours of sleep. You aren’t feeling great. You should be tired the next night right? Nope…I would be exhausted all day, but as 9PM started to roll around I’d finally wake up for the day and start to get my best work done. Hours would just fly by like nothing. Even at 2 or 3 AM I was wide awake and could have easily kept going. But I knew I had to wake up in 4 hours and would force myself to go to bed.

The second day goes by on 4 hours of sleep. You feel even worse. Surely, tonight your body should be wanting to catch up on sleep right? Nope…same problem (you’re exhausted all day but start to wake up at night). Even when I would “go to bed” at 10 or 11PM to try and catch up, I would literally lie there awake in bed for hours and hours (until about 3AM) bored out of my mind.

The entire week goes by like this, each day getting worse and worse (in the morning and throughout the day) as you are in permanent jet lag, yet you can’t fall asleep any earlier.

The best way I can describe it is if you’ve ever had to wake up in the middle of the night and do something in a deep sleep. It’s like if you suddenly had to start getting up for work every day at 1AM.

I was on an entirely different schedule than the rest of the world, and couldn’t adjust no matter how hard I tried.

The Worst Part About It: People’s Perceptions

By far the worst part of DSPS is the societal stigma around it. Obviously, most people (even doctors) have never heard of it. It only affects 0.17% of the population. And most people when you tell them about it think it’s bullshit or that you’re lazy/making excuses.

“It’s just a habit you have to get into.”

“I find exercise/light reading helps me.”

“You just have to give up caffeine.”

Yes, I tried all these things and all of them help me fall asleep faster: at 3AM. That’s just what my body considers it’s normal bed time.

It can be frustrating at times because people make suggestions about it that come across as patronizing. Sometimes you just want to scream “duh! this has been messing with my life every day for the last 10 years, don’t you think I would have tried not drinking caffeine and saved myself the trouble 10 years ago!!!”

But obviously, you can’t blame other people. If I was in their shoes I probably wouldn’t believe it either. People invent all sorts of limitations which are entirely mental.

After reading every piece of literature I could find and trying dozens of treatments to fix it over the last 10 years, I’m fairly convinced that it is a genetic predisposition for me though and not psychosomatic (possibly still curable but I haven’t found anything reliable yet).

Perhaps the worst offenders in the “people’s perceptions” category for me was my parents. Throughout high school (and partially even to this day, I’m not really sure) they did not believe it or fully understand it.

Obviously, after a school week of sleeping four hours per night (and falling asleep again Friday night at 3AM) my body was DESPERATE to sleep a full 8-12 hours on the weekend till noon or later. My parents weren’t happy about this and believed it was a sign of laziness. They would play all sorts of games to get me up on time (I was not amused – again, imagine being woken up at the equivalent of 1AM after a week of sleep deprivation – I believe the North Koreans use similar tactics in labor camps! :).

To their credit, I know they only wanted the best for me, and they didn’t know. DSPS wasn’t even formally recognized as a sleeping disorder until 1981, a few years before I was born, so they had no way of knowing.

Still, it was tough.

A World Designed Without You In Mind

For a long time, I felt like one of those 7 foot basketball players where doorways and airplanes seats never fit you. The world was just not designed for me.

Teachers in high school would routinely harass me for not being alert. I remember actually having hallucinations (the medical term for this is a microsleep) while sitting in class fairly often – a common symptom of extreme sleep deprivation. I didn’t know this wasn’t normal. I figured everyone just “spaces out” sometimes. It’s a really bizarre feeling to have your eyes open while dreaming. You are frozen, almost paralyzed, for 10 seconds or so in a trance until you jerk back suddenly to reality.

College was better, I was able to schedule many of my classes in the afternoon. However, not all of them. Early morning exams were difficult. There is well documented evidence about the negative effects of sleep deprivation, namely:

  • Mental acuity decreases significantly
  • Healing – a 2007 study showed a 20% decrease in white blood cell count in sleep deprived rats as compared to a control group
  • A variety of accidents including the Exxon Valdez spill and Chernobyl nuclear reactor meltdown have been linked to sleep deprived workers

I remember one time in college I went to the gym (it was a small weight room and nobody else was there). I was laying on the incline bench, and put down a set of weights. A moment later I woke up and looked at my watch. An hour and a half had gone by. I had fallen asleep in the middle of the gym without even knowing it.

There were other incidents as well. In the mornings driving to school I would sometimes fall asleep at stop lights. When it turned green people would honk behind me and I’d wake back up. Obviously not the safest way to drive.

Again, all I can compare it to is imagine having to wake up at 1am to take an exam. You probably wouldn’t do quite as well, right?

This is probably what bothers me about it the most: I feel like I was cheated out of a lot of learning especially in high school (and partially in college). I mean, everything considered I still did pretty well, but if that’s how I did being under under extreme sleep deprivation EVERY DAY, just imagine how much I could have accomplished fully rested! Imagine the energy, connections, opportunities, clubs, etc. Ah well…

Discovering I Wasn’t The Only One

Years later (it was toward the end of college) I had become somewhat of a student on sleep disorders during my free time. I had read extensively on it and tried a number of experiments to try and correct it (including polyphasic sleeping, expensive light therapy devices which worked but didn’t have a long term effect, chronotherapy, and others).

One day I came across this wikipedia article on DSPS and I was absolutely STUNNED. It felt like it was describing me perfectly and as I read it, I thought “my God, someone else actually knows about this and has it…and there is a name for it”. It sounds silly but I think the most important thing I realized was that I WASN’T CRAZY.

My entire life up to that point I had always wondered if people were right, maybe I was just lazy or kidding myself. Finding this article at least brought some validity to my own experiences, and let me know there were people out their actively researching it.

Thank God for the internet. It allowed me to self diagnose what would have easily gone unrecognized by a dozen doctors due to it’s obscurity (DSPS is frequently mis-diagnosed as insomnia or depression, often involving the prescription of psychoactive drugs – thank god that didn’t happen).

Despite my excitement over the article, I was somewhat disheartened to learn that even with the best treatments available today (light therapy, melatonin, etc) it is still largely incurable with 90% of patients seeing a relapse within 1 year. At least I knew I wasn’t alone.

Adapting To Life

I’ve had to admit lately that a big part of the reason I’m an entrepreneur is that I have DSPS. It allows me to keep any hours I want, which still means sleeping at 3am (but I actually get to sleep as late as I want now – the full 7-9 hours I need). With this setup I am able to function 100% normally as a productive adult, and I’m very thankful for that.

My brief stint in corporate America was not easy (once again under constant sleep deprivation unlike in college where it was about half and half). It certainly wasn’t the only factor in my decision to break free (I happen to really appreciate having complete freedom for example, and I think it’s a better way to build wealth) but it certainly affected my decision.

So these days, having DSPS is NOT much of a handicap and the past is….well, the past. You can’t change it so no use worring about it.

It still affects me in small ways…for example I never schedule early flights and don’t attend meetings before noon if it can at all be avoided. I absolutely despise alarm clocks and consider it a matter of personal pride that I don’t own one and only ever use one (my cell phone) a few times a year for special events.

The occasional one day of sleep deprivation is manageable for special events where I need to get up early. Its the multiple days in a row that are really bad and cause the microsleeps (hallucinations), so those are luckily a thing of the past.

So that’s it. I’ll just close by saying that this post is not a “poor me” cry for help. On the contrary, if this is the worst genetic disorder life has to throw at me I’m home free – I got an easy one and it barely affects me at all today. Also, for some people it apparently fades out later in life. Older people naturally sleep less, so it may (or may not) go away on it’s own.

If you have any sort of similar health problem read the next paragraph:

Lots of people take a negative attitude toward these things and say “great, 0.17% of the population gets this and of course I’M the one to get it!” But that’s bullshit, there are tons of diseases/disorders you probably have a 0.17% of getting, and adding them all up means you have a pretty good chance of having SOMETHING if not lots of them. DSPS is much better than a lot of problems I can think of having, and I feel EXTREMELY lucky to have been born with all the other advantages I have in life. I’ve got zero room for whining on something like this.

But I thought I’d post it out there for a few reasons:

  1. A lot of entrepreneurs I’ve met seem to have this, and don’t know they have it. They might feel like I did (like something is wrong with them) and this will help them to understand it. And…
  2. So that if you ever invite me to a morning meeting, you’ll understand when I don’t show up… :)

Until next time, keep breaking free!
Brian Armstrong

63 Responses

    Avatar

    www.ManuelZeh.de

    June 13th, 2009 at 4:46 pm

    Hey Brian, that post you wrote about the Light Therapy (when was it, three years ago?) saved my life. I use the blue light every day now. I remember I sent you the wiki site about DSPS and I have it too… so that’s one reason why I chose to be a musician. I rarely start working before 6pm.

    I still like to get up at 9 am though, cause I’m more productive that way… and that would be impossible without the blue light. In fact if I stop using it for a few days, the DSPS fully kicks in again and I can’t sleep before 3 or 4 am.

    I had the same problem in school, but what’s worse, I used to get terrible head aches and I had NO IDEA that they were related to the DSPS. Only when I started working as a musician and I didn’t have to set alarms anymore, the headaches stopped and I saw the connection. Luckily it’s been years since I found out about DSPS, and my prof at the music academy where I graduated was very understanding.

    Great article, it’s good to spread the word about this. I once read somewhere that some 10% of the population have at least a mild form of DSPS. And whether that’s true or not, waking up between 6 and 7 am doesn’t seem to feel natural to almost anybody, judging from the long faces you see on the subway in the early morning hours. Haha.

    Best,

    -Manuel

      Avatar

      Brian Armstrong

      June 13th, 2009 at 11:59 pm

      Oh cool, that interesting the blue light works well for you. I got good results with it initially, but there were a few things which I had trouble with, namely:
      1. to get started is hard, because you have to wake up early to shine it at the right time of day (or when you started out did you just do it whenever you woke up?)

      2. I would usually go out at least one night per week, have a few drinks and then sleep in late the next day (like on a weekend) and this would break the cycle again.

      I’m curious to hear other people’s results with it though, maybe I should try it again.

        Avatar

        www.ManuelZeh.de

        June 14th, 2009 at 12:09 am

        1. to get started is hard, because you have to wake up early to shine it at the right time of day (or when you started out did you just do it whenever you woke up?)

        I used to skip a night, i.e. when my biorhythm was set to going to bed at 4 am and waking up at 1 pm, I’d just stay up 30 hours until the next day at 7pm, then sleep 12 hours and then use the blue light. Setting an early alarm works too, but it’s more painful.

        2. I would usually go out at least one night per week, have a few drinks and then sleep in late the next day (like on a weekend) and this would break the cycle again.

        Yeah, I hardly go clubbing anymore and one reason is that it really throws my DSPS for a loop.

        Avatar

        karen

        September 13th, 2009 at 6:06 am

        Sounds like your DSPS is more serious than what Dr. Richard Ferber would recommend. But I immediately thought of this sleep expert whom most new-moms turn to regarding their babies.

        The book, Solve Your Child’s Sleep Problems also has a chapter about teens whose circadian rhythms are set to have them fall asleep at 3 or 4 am. He generally has mom’s put babies to bed 15 minutes earlier each night until set to a better time, but with teens he shifts their schedule LATER over a few weeks until at a normal time — meaning that teens must miss many hours of school in the process.

        You may be beyond experimentations, but none the less curious to read Dr. Ferber’s book.

    Avatar

    Barb D.

    June 13th, 2009 at 5:19 pm

    Hi Brian,

    Just wondering–how did your recent move affect your sleep? Any changes? When do you go to bed now?
    Great of you to share this with us–I’ve never heard of it, and I know someone with these symptoms.

    Thanks,
    Barb

      Avatar

      Brian Armstrong

      June 14th, 2009 at 12:02 am

      Hi Barb, no big changes with the move to Argentina. Jet lag works about the same for me as it does with other people. Usually after a few days I adjust to the new time zone (and start falling asleep around 3am as usual).

      Hope it helps your friend!
      Brian

        Avatar

        kiwi_girl

        September 3rd, 2009 at 10:04 am

        yes i found the exact same thing with the jet lag. i am from new zealand and currently working as an au pair in spain and when i first arrived in london it just took a few days and i was back to falling asleep at 2 or 3am again every night.

    Avatar

    CamKC

    June 13th, 2009 at 9:59 pm

    This problem has been formally acknowledged, and schools and colleges in Scandinavia are making their start-times later for adolescents.

    In some areas of the US this is also noted, and the fact that it particularly affects adolescents makes school and college start-times an important issue.

    In the UK, where most schools are so very concerned about their ranking vis-a-vis other schools in the area, and where rankings are publicly displayed, you would expect them too to seize on this idea as it would be expected to raise their pupils’ scores without doing anything except changing the start time.

    But if employers expect the start-time to remain as it always has been, then pupils who have problems with early starts will be driven into occupations where start-time is not such a big deal.

    In addition to being an entrepreneur that you have already mentioned, I saw an article saying that computer programmers loved to come in late and often stay very late, and at places like Google and Microsoft they make arrangements to allow this to happen.

    But its seen very much as a “programmer geeky thing” and they haven’t seen the connection with the circadian rhythms of adolescents yet.

    KC

      Avatar

      Brian Armstrong

      June 14th, 2009 at 12:04 am

      Hi KC,

      Good points, yep my impression is that it will continue to get more attention both in schools and jobs. It really is a “free” productivity boost for forward thinking employers and schools.

      Thanks!
      Brian

      Avatar

      Brian Armstrong

      June 14th, 2009 at 12:06 am

      I forgot to mention also, there is some evidence that the computer screen is what throws off the sleep cycle. It would make sense given the light therapy remedies, etc. I haven’t fully tested this theory, but I’m currently experimenting with a program that is supposed to help with this (it adjusts your monitor’s brightness and color composition based on the time of day).

      http://www.stereopsis.com/flux/

      Been using it for about a week, no changes I can notice yet, but it’s a good idea.

        Avatar

        www.ManuelZeh.de

        June 14th, 2009 at 6:43 pm

        That totally makes sense to me. I know lots of people who work on the computer a lot and suffer from insomnia. This tool sounds amazing, I will download it immediately.

        By the way, I’m experimenting with a gradual way of resetting my body clock. Say I was out late Saturday night, I use the blue light at noon on Sunday and it helps to go to bed a bit earlier every day (maybe 30 to 60 min). I think you only need to overdose on the blue light and it shortens your day to less than 24 hours.

        -Manuel.

          Avatar

          www.ManuelZeh.de

          June 14th, 2009 at 6:50 pm

          A few more thoughts about this… I think you’re not noting any effect because your DSPS is genetic. Whereas somebody who doesn’t have genetic DSPS can have his biorhythm offset by the computer screen, so it would help those people more.

          A few months ago I spent a few weeks working on the computer practically 24/7 and it made my DSPS worse (my days started to be longer than 24 hours and after a while I couldn’t fall asleep before 8 am).

          -Manuel

          Avatar

          Brian Armstrong

          June 16th, 2009 at 11:39 pm

          Very interesting…yep I agree that the computer probably makes it worse. Let me know how the Flux program works for you.

          Avatar

          www.ManuelZeh.de

          June 25th, 2009 at 1:23 am

          I’ve tested this gradual way of resetting the body clock twice. Once it worked cause I did it very slowly, maybe half an hour back a day, with strong doses of blue light in the morning. Last night I tried to set my clock back by 90 minutes at once and go to bed at 11.30 pm. My body thought it was an afternoon nap, woke me up after 20 minutes and I was wide awake till 5 am. :/

          Avatar

          Brian Armstrong

          June 25th, 2009 at 2:39 am

          That’s a tough one :)

    Avatar

    Paul Buenaflor

    June 15th, 2009 at 10:10 pm

    Brian,

    I found this post interesting because I experienced something like this before, but in a milder form. I don’t want to diminish the seriousness of the problem, but – at the risk of sounding patronizing like the people you described – let me offer you some quack thoughts:

    1) Is it possible that certain personality types require a certain “minimum daily allowance” of quiet, alone time in order to stay healthy? Some people thrive on being around people and being physically busy (for better or worse), so they can go right to bed after doing stuff.

    Other people need – for example – 3 hours minimum “quiet, alone-time” (call it “QAT”) to let the brain crank away. Since their brain has been engaged in the world all day, the only time that the brain has time to roam free is after 9PM. If they got that 3 hours of QAT from, say, 3PM to 6PM, they would feel more ready to sleep at the “normal” hour. Of course, this is impractical for most people, but you get my drift. And in your case, sounds like you needed 6 hours daily allowance of QAT – from 9PM to 3AM!

    As you know, some successful people spend do get lots of QAT. I think I read that Warren Buffett (I’m not 100% sure) spends 2 hours every morning alone just “reflecting” on the world.

    2) I think the “disorder,” in at least some cases, must be socially-driven – caused by an imbalance between “extrovert” time and “introvert” time. Because if the disorder were linked to an absolute time, you could cure it just by moving time zones. For example, if your “natural” bedtime were 3am CST, you could just move to a place where 3am CST is 10pm. That would make you an early bird.

    To paraphrase another great Buffett (Jimmy Buffett): Pour me another margarita. It’s only half past 12, but I don’t care because it’s 5 o’clock somewhere…

    Regards,
    Paul B

      Avatar

      Brian Armstrong

      June 16th, 2009 at 11:44 pm

      Hi Paul, good thoughts and I certainly don’t mind. The QAT introvert/extrovert theory is a definite possibility.

      Also the reason why moving to a different time zone doesn’t solve it is because our biological clocks are affected by light. So there is a natural reset there. But you’re right there are social factors as well.

      For me I don’t think it’s a huge effect though…for example last night I was out salsa dancing with a large group of people until 5am and only started getting tired around the 4am as usual. But it’s the same if I’m in my room working alone.

        Avatar

        www.ManuelZeh.de

        June 17th, 2009 at 3:22 am

        I agree. On my travels, at times I was meditating in Asia 90% of the time and other times I was partying in South America 90% of the time, and it didn’t affect the DSPS.

          Avatar

          Paul Buenaflor

          June 17th, 2009 at 8:19 pm

          This is a pretty dramatic counter-example. Amazing that such polar opposite lifestyles had no effect on the DSPS. And funny how Asia led you to meditate, while South America led you to party.

    Avatar

    Chuck Cohn

    June 15th, 2009 at 10:39 pm

    DSPS sounds like it could really sneak up on you. One day it takes you a little longer to fall asleep than normal, next thing you know you’ve quit your job, sold most of your belongs, and are living in South America writing a blog at 3 AM! It did take me a while to fall asleep last night….

    Just kidding. Interesting post. I think ADD/ADHD is probably another big “disorder” that leads to people starting their own business.

    Avatar

    Andrew Michel

    June 24th, 2009 at 5:07 am

    Wow, I believe I have this. I never sleep till at least 3am. I have tried many things but still can’t sleep until 3am. Usually during schhol I am pretty much passed out, but no matter what. After about 8pm I am wide awake.

    I am not certain I have this though. Some nights I can fall asleep earlier. Example. no sleep and I can fall asleep at about 8. But I usually fall asleep before dark. I only get my wide awake feeling after it turns dark.

    Oh well. I’m still young. Maybe it will die off like you said it might.

      Avatar

      Brian Armstrong

      June 25th, 2009 at 12:26 am

      If sleep deprived it’s possible to fall asleep much earlier (say around 5-8pm) because this is the equivalent of an afternoon nap for most people in terms of where your circadian rhythm is, but typically not at say 10pm. If that makes sense.

    Avatar

    delayed2sleep

    July 10th, 2009 at 9:34 am

    What a wonderful post about DSPS! Well-written – and so familiar. Especially the revelation, the moment one learns that it exists, it has a name. Mine started long before yours – both earlier in my life, as a preschooler, and much earlier in the 20th century.

    You’ve got some interesting comments, too. It’s hard to explain and hard (impossible) for most people to understand. I have one friend who I think really does understand because he’s such an extreme lark! He really has to get to bed at about 9 p.m. Later than that he can fall asleep in a theatre or in his mother-in-law’s living room. Since he knows that he can’t fix his sleep schedule, he believes me about mine.

    BTW, one should NOT get up very early to use bright (white or blue) light! If you use it too early it can have the opposite of the desired effect. Up to an hour before usual wake should be OK.

    I use 10000 lux white light when I wake up (usually by 1 p.m.) and one-half mg melatonin an hour and a half before bed. I also use amber blue-blocking goggles in the evening – when I remember. I’d used mel and light box for 5 years. After I retired, I tried 8 weeks without either. No go. I was sleeping mostly 3-5 or 10-14 hours, at any time of day. Chaos. Looks like I’m on melatonin for life. As you point out, there are worse abnormalities.

      Avatar

      www.ManuelZeh.de

      July 11th, 2009 at 12:36 am

      QUOTE:
      BTW, one should NOT get up very early to use bright (white or blue) light! If you use it too early it can have the opposite of the desired effect. Up to an hour before usual wake should be OK.

      What side effect can the blue light have? I’ve been using it for about a year and so far it works great, most of the time. I can, if I so desire, sleep from 10 pm til 7 am instead of the usual 4 am to 1 pm. I even wake up at 7 without an alarm clock and I’m yawning by 10 pm.

      QUOTE:
      No go. I was sleeping mostly 3-5 or 10-14 hours, at any time of day. Chaos.

      That’s interesting, I never had these symptoms (but I’m only 28 – maybe DSPS gets worse over time if its not treated?). My sleep is normal excepr for the fact that the schedule is set off, I always sleep about 7 to 9 hours.

      Avatar

      www.ManuelZeh.de

      July 26th, 2009 at 9:46 pm

      QUOTE: I also use amber blue-blocking goggles in the evening – when I remember.

      That’s interesting and it’s something I’d like to try. Are these special goggles or just any blue goggles? Where can I get those?

      Thanks,

      -Manuel

        Avatar

        delayed2sleep

        July 27th, 2009 at 1:10 pm

        Not blue goggles. Blue-blocking goggles. As you know, blue light upon awakening helps advance sleep. Blue light in late evening delays sleep. Indoor lighting and, not least, computer screens, are light with a lot of blue in it. I got my amber goggles from a dental supply company (dentists and dental assistants use a very intense blue light to harden some fillings and it’s not good for their eyes).

        My goggles are identical to the ones pictured on this home page: https://www.lowbluelights.com/index.asp
        Strangely it’s not in their product assortment, but there are very similar ones. (They call them glasses. When they’re wrap-around and snug, I call them goggles.)

        You can’t use them while exercizing – they get steamy. And you can’t use them while doing delicate work with colors — on screen, fabrics, artwork. Otherwise they’re fine.

        The point is to let your pineal gland start secreting melatonin as early in the evening as it wants to.

        Think back to before electric light. Blue sky in the morning. Orange sunset, then orange light from candles / oil lamps / fireplace.

          Avatar

          www.ManuelZeh.de

          July 27th, 2009 at 3:19 pm

          Thanks for clarifying, I’ll try those. How many hours before bed time do you use those?

          On another note, I looked into melatonin as a supplement and wikipedia says it’s illegal in Germany. So I looked up the German wikipedia article about melatonin and it says:

          “The effect of diminishing the gonadals (sexual glands) is important, especially for the intake of melatonin.”

          Is this something we should be worried about? It also says in the article that melatonin is safe in the short term (less than 3 months) but no studies have been made about taking it for longer than that.

          Best,

          -Manny

    Avatar

    delayed2sleep

    July 11th, 2009 at 2:00 pm

    @Brian: You told about a program above which “adjusts your monitor’s brightness and color composition based on the time of day.” Now you’ve used it for a month or more? Tell us more. Satisfied?

    @Manuel: No problem with blue light unless you have a degenerative disease of the retina. Blue or white gives the same effect; it’s the blue in the white which affects the circadian system – blue at about 480nm. (In contrast the human visual system is most excitable at green ~560nm if I recall correctly.)

    My warning was rather about the timing, whether you’re using white or blue light. There’s a not-too-easy concept, the Phase Response Curve (see Wikipedia and/or my blog) which shows the effect of (bright) light on the circadian system at varying times of day. And that means time of YOUR day, based on habitual wake time. Up to 2 hr before wake (varies wildly individually, can be from 1 to 6 1/2 hr) light will advance the system. Before the magic point of the lowest core body temperature, however, light has the opposite effect, which should be avoided. Thus someone who wakes naturally at noon, should not force her/himself up at 7 a.m. to use bright light. It may backfire.

    I don’t know if DSPS gets worse with age. After struggling the losing battle with it for a few decades, without even knowing what it is, it may be harder to tame? But all my life I’ve occasionally slept for 14 hrs. Drove my dad nuts. “It’s like you’re putting sleep in the bank to draw on later,” he’d say.

      Avatar

      www.ManuelZeh.de

      July 11th, 2009 at 3:34 pm

      Thanks for the clarifications, I appreciate it. I will keep that in mind and watch for those symptoms in the future. Yeah my dad was complaining about it a lot too. “Do you always have to turn the night into the day?” Or my personal favorite: “You shouldn’t go to sleep so late, because the house you sleep before midnight count twice as much as the hours after midnight”. Haha. I’ll check out your blog too, thanks for that!

      Best,

      -Manuel.

      Avatar

      Brian Armstrong

      July 14th, 2009 at 10:19 pm

      Hey there, no noticeable changes from Flux, the program to adjust my monitor, but I’m still using it and have grown to like it…it’s just easier on the eyes after nighttime. Who knows…maybe it will have a long term effect, these things are difficult to measure, but nothing drastic so far.

    Avatar

    www.ManuelZeh.de

    July 13th, 2009 at 3:05 am

    Is it possible to grow desensitized / immune to the blue light? I’ve been using it for about a year and as I said above, it worked great (in fact I’d even be able to wake up at 7 am without an alarm clock and fall asleep at 10 pm). In recent weeks, I’ve been having trouble falling asleep even at midnight. Anybody experience anything like that with the light therapy?

      Avatar

      Brian Armstrong

      July 14th, 2009 at 10:16 pm

      Hey Manny, if I had to guess I’d say no, just because “regular” people don’t seem to become immune to their wake up schedules from natural sunlight. But really I’m just guessing, it’s an interesting question.

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        www.ManuelZeh.de

        August 18th, 2009 at 8:54 pm

        I think I figured this one out. I think the blue light lost its effect on me because I have the travel version and the rechargable batteries are starting to get weak. I always leave it plugged in now while I use it and I think that solved the problem.

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          Brian Armstrong

          August 18th, 2009 at 9:22 pm

          Interesting. Btw, I recently did what you mentioned where I stayed up all night and next day and went to bed a more normal time. I’ve been trying to maintain it, it’s getting a little more difficult but so far so good, been waking up at 8:30 last week and a half. Let me know if anything else develops…we can share tips.
          Brian

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          www.ManuelZeh.de

          August 18th, 2009 at 9:27 pm

          Yeah that works for me too. Now I have gigs almost every night of the week so I rarely get to bed before midnight, but when I wasn’t performing so much, I managed to wake up at 7.30 every morning, like clock work and without an alarm. It’s a great feeling, when I have my affirmations, breakfast, emails, workout, shower and meditation done by 9.30 am, the day is just off to a hell of a productive start.

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    College Town Menus (CTM)

    July 15th, 2009 at 2:43 pm

    Haha not going to lie, this was one of your biggest posts. I skimmed through most of it, and I can only imagine how hard it would be having this condition. I’m tired at work on a daily basis even with 7ish hours of sleep. I think you manage it well though and your hard work pays off; that is, when you’re awake to work on it, haha.
    The trick for me to get up in the morning is to put my cell phone on vibrate under my pillow or on loudest ringer in another room. Works every time.

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    mattyboy

    July 17th, 2009 at 10:34 pm

    Well you’ve certainly picked the right country to move to – Argentina does everything late! None of my Argentine friends even knew anyone who would go to bed before 1am…

    -Matt

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    David Adams

    August 29th, 2009 at 2:56 am

    I’m glad to have read your posting. I’ve been dealing with DSPS for 25 years or so, with a similar story to yours. I was a zombie in high school, but eventually just started skipping school every 3-4 days to sleep. Despite missing all the classes, my GPA skyrocketed. In college, once I realized that I could schedule all my classes for 1pm or later, I got straight As. When I had an early exam, I would just stay up all night cramming, take a 45 minute nap right before the exam, and ace it. Thankfully, I became an entrepreneur, and let me heartily concur with your appraisal of the situation. People keep buying my companies, though, then expecting me to come work in their offices. So I start new companies.

    It was only one week ago that I found out that DSPS was a recognized disorder. I thought I was all alone in the world (even though I now realize that both my mother and sister have it also). I just got used to thinking that I was morally deficient for not being able to get up in the morning. The world makes you feel that way. Luckily, I managed to make my way in the world and readjust my life around it, but now I’m feeling quite giddy that I’m learning about other people who have it, and feeling some kinship and support. The fact that I now know there’s no “cure” is a small price to pay to be able to let go of the guilt.

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      Brian Armstrong

      August 29th, 2009 at 3:14 pm

      Wow David, great to hear you story. I’m curious what companies you are working on or have sold. Would you mind sharing a bit? Always good to meet other entrepreneurs.

      I wonder if more people with DSPS end up in entrepreneurship than normal (I suspect they do).
      Brian

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    striker

    September 12th, 2009 at 3:48 am

    Take a couple of bananas & cut into small pieces & fry them in Ghee (or butter if you cant find Ghee). Add a little cinnamon powder.

    Next boil some Milk & cool it a bit and then add the fried bananas.
    Eat this about 30 mins before bedtime
    Take this for a few nights & see if this helps with your sleep patterns.

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    striker

    September 12th, 2009 at 3:52 am

    http://allfall.blogspot.com/2005/08/banana-and-milk-or-melatonin-as.html

    btw, this is a standard sleep remedy used in India.

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    karen

    September 13th, 2009 at 6:12 am

    Sounds like your DSPS is more serious than what Dr. Richard Ferber would recommend. But I immediately thought of this sleep expert whom most new-moms turn to regarding their babies.

    The book, Solve Your Child’s Sleep Problems also has a chapter about teens whose circadian rhythms are set to have them fall asleep at 1 or 3 am. He generally has mom’s put babies to bed 15 minutes earlier each night until set to a better time, but with teens he shifts their schedule LATER over a few weeks until at a normal time — meaning that teens must miss many hours of school in the process.

    You may be beyond experimentations, but none the less curious to read Dr. Ferber’s book, or his teen (3am) section at least.

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    Luke

    October 13th, 2009 at 2:15 am

    When I read your post, I had to double take, almost had to check my wallet to make completely sure my name isn’t Brian Armstrong!

    I too recently stumbled across the Wikipedia article on DSPS, and my jaw dropped as I self-diagnosed the problem i’ve been suffering with for the past several years (I’m now 19).

    I pretty much failed school, and lost a job thanks to this illness, however the interesting thing to note is that in the evening-thru-late-night peak spanning over several years, I practically taught myself to be an IT engineer and web designer/programmer.

    I now run my own IT support business, with a steady stream of entrepeneurial ideas(/delusions as they rarely materialise) running through my mind! I’m also a part time manager of a music studio, gymnastics coach, and the list goes on..
    So strangely there does seem to be a link there..

    The one main thing I’m overjoyed about, is that I can put a name to what has been considered by family, friends, my old boss etc. as lazyness, or a teenage “phase”, I just can’t stand the social stigma attached.

    Good to know there are other people who suffer from the same condition, hope to keep in touch :)

    P.S. It’s 3:15 am as I write this.. hah

    Luke

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      Brian Armstrong

      October 13th, 2009 at 1:56 pm

      Hey Luke, glad you found the site! :) I agree, it was a great weight lifted to finally found out others have it.

      Btw, my latest theory is that it’s the computer monitor that is largely responsible for throwing things off. It works just like a light therapy device (except at the wrong times, late at night).

      I started using http://stereopsis.com/flux/ to auto-dim the monitor late at night. No dramatic effect. But when I started dimming the monitor even further (to about 50% power) or avoiding the computer entirely at night I started to notice an effect, my sleep cycle stopped drifting later and later. I’m now able to wake up consistently at the same time and fall asleep earlier. It helped. Check it out!

      There is a definite pattern where most people who have DSPS are heavy computer users late at night. Whether that is because they are awake and need something to do, or because it’s the cause, I’m not sure. But worth investigating. If you try it and it helps let me know!

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        www.ManuelZeh.de

        October 14th, 2009 at 1:43 am

        That’s a great insight. The flux didn’t do it for me either, in fact I don’t think it had any effect at all. Lately my rhythm has been way off, sometimes I’d fall asleep at 8 am, wake up at 2pm, sleep from 11pm to 4am, all kinds of nonsense. And I think the reason coudl very well be that I’ve been working on the computer a lot lately, and it may have offset the effect off the bluelight (or more than just offset it).

        I’ll test this for a couple of weeks and let you know how it goes.

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    delayed2sleep

    October 14th, 2009 at 1:34 am

    Hello again,

    The monitor is, or seems, very blue and I’m sure it makes things worse. But I don’t believe it can “cause” DSPS. I’ve had DSPS since I was little, computers hadn’t been invented and we didn’t have a TV. Just sayin’.

    Different as we all are, we do seem to have one thing in common: the great relief at learning that it has a name and isn’t just a personal lack of will-power. Life-changing, really.

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      Brian Armstrong

      October 14th, 2009 at 3:23 pm

      Valid point, I think you’re right it’s not the sole cause or anything like that. Possibly worsening the problem though. I’ve noticed an improvement since drastically dimming or avoiding computer usage, but it’s difficult to test these things when there are so many variables (in geek speak, it’s not a controlled experiment). It’s great though that we have so many people finding this article and reporting back. Since it’s so rare it’s great to share info between other people who have it!

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    Evan L.

    October 27th, 2009 at 9:37 am

    I’m rather self-diagnosed as far as this, myself. I’m a 15 year old teenager, a sophomore in high school, and my life is currently down the crapper (if you’ll pardon the expression). I am 100% unable to fall asleep before 7 in the morning. I’ve tried literally everything that people suggest for me to do (sleeping pills, exercise, etc) and eventually, it just got labeled from everyone (yes, even most of my friends) as being lazy. My parents see me as lazy, and it being my fault, the school does, and so do some of my friends. Even my god danged doctor thinks I’m just lazy. I can’t keep up with school any more, and I’ve reached the point where I’m not even getting by. I’ve tried melatonin, and that doesn’t help. I’ve also tried chronotherapy and I relapse in a week-2 weeks, and it takes me nearly a month to get to the right time anyway.

    I don’t even know what to do any more, and at this point, I’m looking to be kicked out of my internet school (since I failed public school). I’ve run out of available options, and I need something that’ll work. Fast.

    Got any suggestions for me?

      Avatar

      Brian Armstrong

      October 27th, 2009 at 5:49 pm

      Hey Evan, sounds tough for sure. My only suggestion is to remind yourself that you have the same number of hours in a day as everyone else. Just because you’re sleeping odd hours doesn’t mean you can’t be productive. In some ways you’ll be more productive actually because you can focus without interruption while everyone else is sleeping. This is your chance to be self-taught whenever possible. If you want anything badly enough you can find a way to do it. Stay positive and good luck!

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    delayed2sleep

    October 27th, 2009 at 1:34 pm

    First the more long-range stuff, which you didn’t ask about. About 0.15 % of adults, equally many women as men, have DSPS (or DSPD, as some are calling it now). About 7 % of adolescents do, most of them boys. Obviously the majority of teens with DSPS outgrow it by their early 20s. I know that is no help just now.

    If you are in the USA, there is a brand new subspecialty, Sleep Medicine. Doctors who’ve completed that know at least something about circadian rhythm disorders (CRD). That would be mainly neurologists, pediatricians and psychiatrists. Accredited sleep centers are now required to have such a specialist on staff.

    The first sections of this PDF: http://www.aasmnet.org/Resources/PracticeParameters/Review_CircadianRhythm.pdf and especially Part 2 of that review (which I can’t find at the moment) should help convince parents & doctors that the disorder is real. As someone said, “DSPS is a condition, not a habit!” Obviously you need at least one adult willing to believe and help you. Online stuff including Wikipedia should help with that. And welcome to my blog, which is all about CRD. Good luck!

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    Diane

    November 5th, 2009 at 1:23 am

    Thank you, thank you, thank you, as we used to say in the deep south. Now I have a name for this condition. I retired at age 52 because I couldn’t keep up anymore. (I was luckily able to retire) After a couple of years I started thinking – why was I not able to keep up? Early fifties is certainly not an old age! Developed depression about 10 yrs prior to retirement. Learned that I had sleep apnea about three years ago but the cpap does not help me. When I am on my game, I am ON MY GAME. But when I’m not, boy am I busted, unfocused, “airhead.” Just knowing DSPS is a real condition and that I’m not deficient in some way is certainly an encouragement. Now I need to think through and work through developing a plan – do I attempt to “reschedule” myself or just allow myself to live what is natural for me. BTW – I’m on the computer at night because I am doing my best thinking and I am alone and I do believe the light from the screen has a huge negative effect. On rare nights when I read instead of watch tv or using computer – I am able to settle down earlier. Thanks.

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    www.ManuelZeh.de

    January 10th, 2010 at 1:43 pm

    @delayed2sleep: My rhythm’s been crazy lately, it’s been driving me nuts. So I finally ordered those amber blue-blocking goggles you mentioned. How long before the desired sleeping time should I start wearing them?

    Thanks!

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    www.ManuelZeh.de

    January 13th, 2010 at 7:35 pm

    Meh it’s 5.30 pm and I just woke up. :/
    Yeah I got the Odysseys from the second product page here: https://www.lowbluelights.com

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    messedupdspsguy

    February 3rd, 2010 at 6:14 am

    I have something VERY similar. It’s a miracle my wife puts up with at all. She’s excellent. Anyway…

    I have a DRIFTING sleep schedule due to two things. The first, is thaT I’m up longer than 16 hours, and even that varies The second, is that the time I’m actually asleep varies, anywhere from 8 to almost 10 hours. But the final result, is that I usualyl end up drifting around the entire clock! Alarm clocks don’t help. Neither do pills.

    I found a temporary cure, but it was situational, albiet exhausting. When I was seperated from my wife, I was living with my mother, and, I also had a job (rare for me), that required that I got up 7 AM to catch the subway to get to work in Queens, NY. I eventually acclamated, however, I was exhausted every day. That went on for a whole 6 months. Now, I’m back with my wife living in my house again, unemployed, drifting around the clock like a lost fish at sea.

    This has resulted in profound lonliness, unexplainable unpredictable waking from sleep, and sleeping from wakefullness. I’m in agony, and always end up feeling completely spaced out, isolated, with an altered state of consciousness that’s hard to bear.

    I became a computer tech. Not enough to pay the bills, however, I make a small living. My email address is computerdoctor@nyc.rr.com

    IF anyone wants to hang out at night at NYC and you’re female, let me know! I have an open relationship with my wife :)

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Breaking Free is a blog for people who'd like to quit their 9-to-5, start their own business, and achieve financial freedom. It's written by web-entrepreneur Brian Armstrong. You can read more here »